Comments on News For the Mormon Legal Community: Arizona Judge Prohibits Mormonism

Going through something extremely similar myself, ...

2010-03-29T17:42:59.904-07:00

Going through something extremely similar myself, I can say that the judge is simply doing what is best for the children. As adults we are able to understand and appreciate religious differences. As children, two completely different ideologies will only confuse the children who have been through enough already. The father signed the decree agreeing to raise them Catholic. When they are older, they can do as they please. I am sure he can find a babysitter for them if he chooses to practice his faith while they are with him. It's not about banning Mormonism as so incorrectly stated. It' about raising Catholic as stated in the decree. You can't do both at the same time.

We had a similar case in California a number of ye...

2009-06-07T13:37:40.184-07:00

We had a similar case in California a number of years ago. It was a reported appellate opinion, In re Marriage of Mentry, 142 Cal. App. 3d 260. It is almost precisely on point except that the mother was a former LDS. The prevailing view in the states is that clear harm to the child must be shown to trample on the religious rights of the parents.

All that said, there are judges who feel that teaching a child any religion is doing harm.

While the couple did agree to raise the children i...

2009-05-28T14:23:06.717-07:00

While the couple did agree to raise the children in the Catholic Church that is much different the Judge completely banning someone from attending an LDS Church. The ban on Mormonism was not agreed to.

how does this one work with your constitution? kn...

2009-05-28T08:05:17.015-07:00

how does this one work with your constitution? know it says congress shall make no laws- but how does a judge make a ruling that voids a part of your constitution?

also I am sure if anyone dug they could find the judge could have an exposure to a church/ group that are opposed to the "mormon" church in any way- prejudiced/ disqualify

sounds an easy appeal- but we know the cost involved

at the end o the day its whats best for the kids i guess, and so harmony might say go to one church only, and hope when tyhey older the kids investigate for themselves (provided they havent been poisoned)

I don't see what the fuss is about. The parties ex...

2009-05-24T14:45:06.407-07:00

I don't see what the fuss is about. The parties expressly stipulated in the Divorce Decree that the kids were to be brought up in the Catholic faith. That was their determination, not the court's. If the dad didn't want that, he shouldn't have signed off on it. If the Best Interest Attorney is to be believed, the kids don't enjoy going to LDS Church services -- and at 3 hours, who would at that age? I just see a judge enforcing the parties prior Decree. Where's the scandal?

The only part I might take issue with is the Parenting Coordinator's decision that the kids would be better off exposed to only one religion. That sounds bogus to me. As long as the kids have two living parents, they will be exposed to contrasting viewpoints and beliefs. Attempting to isolate one seems futile, but that's essentially what the parents agreed to in the Decree, so it doesn't seem improper.

Or not...I just learned that the good Judge is a n...

2009-05-23T22:16:16.697-07:00

Or not...I just learned that the good Judge is a non-practicing Jew.

Interestingly, I am acquainted with Judge Budoff's...

2009-05-23T05:37:48.136-07:00

Interestingly, I am acquainted with Judge Budoff's family (at least, I've met his son on a few occasions). I don't know if the Budoff family is Christian, but I do know several of their friends, and each are very strong Born Again Christians.

Although neither of us have the evidence to back it up, I believe that your suspicions of religious prejudice may have some merit.

I don't blame the judge for doing this. I was taug...

2009-05-23T01:11:09.673-07:00

I don't blame the judge for doing this. I was taught as a little Mormon boy in Sunday School that Catholics were people who worshiped Satan, that the Catholic Church is "the whore of all the earth," and that the Catholic Church was created by the devil to lead mankind away from the truth, which had to be restored by Joseph Smith. Later I saw the endowment ceremony, in which Lucifer is paying a Priest to be his partner.

I can only imagine the damaging self-hatred which has been pounded into these poor childrens' minds as a result of the false teachings in this regard.

As a Mormon I look forward to the day when the church makes a full and complete atonement for this psychotic bigotry and hatred.

Clint Dunaway, I find your Muslims-on-airplanes c...

2009-05-22T18:31:38.420-07:00

Clint Dunaway,

I find your Muslims-on-airplanes comment to be an utter non sequitur and a too-obvious hip shot. But more importantly I suggest that the interesting questions your raise are best approached first by what many lawyers quaintly call "research," and only later by outraged blogging.

Here, for example is a post about an Alabama case. It is not exactly on-point, but it confirms my suspicion that divorce decrees sometimes encompass religious training of children of other denominations. I am pretty sure LDS parents are not the only people who take their children's religious exposure seriously. (Even in your example, the mother's side of the controversy took Catholicism seriously.)

Here is a layman's survey of the state of the law on that point. It came up first in my Google search. Here is the second such article retrieved, from Findlaw.com. Both articles say this is a fairly common matter, unresolved by SCOTUS.

So it is an interesting question, if asked correctly and fairly. Obviously, we should expect the law to be neutral vis a vis the LDS church. I also would expect that we temper our own opinions by that standard.

These family issues can be difficult to understand...

2009-05-22T18:31:14.676-07:00

These family issues can be difficult to understand in a court decision, and, based on my experience with abused spouses, I would not be surprised if there is more going on here than we can read in the judge's decision. It does not look like it has much to do with religion, but much to do with an abusive father and kids that would rather be Catholic. It sounds as if the father is using religion as a tool against the mother, rather than for the benefit of the children. I agree that the order will not keep the children from learning about Mormonism, but it may keep the father from using it as a weapon against his ex-wife.

JaO of course I don't know for sure how the Judge ...

2009-05-22T17:32:57.671-07:00

JaO of course I don't know for sure how the Judge would have ruled if the Father had not been Mormon (and maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to these situations) but for example when several Muslims are pulled off an airplane for "acting suspicious" there is wide spread outrage and much media attention. Compare that to this situation which has received no national media exposure that I'm aware of.

I can’t see Judge Budoff, ruling the same way i...

2009-05-22T16:35:32.243-07:00
I can’t see Judge Budoff, ruling the same way if the father were a member of a different religion; he would not have banned this father from sharing his beliefs with them..
How do you know that besides you own ipse dixit?

And would you hold the same opinion on the law if the facts were actually different -- if the mother, who seems to have primary custody, were raising the children in the LDS church and that were their preference, but the father compelled them to attend mass and take communion?

(BTW, I am not an expert in domestic relations law, so I have no opinion about whether the judge is correct as a matter of law. I suspect that such parental rights commonly are cabined by divorce decrees. I would be interested to read knowledgeable commentary.)