Comments on News For the Mormon Legal Community: 2009 Top Ten Most Mormon Friendly Law Schools

I'd add Suffolk University Law School to that ...

2009-10-29T06:07:36.371-07:00

I'd add Suffolk University Law School to that list. I have no idea what percentage of the student population is LDS, but it's situated in the middle of a fairly LDS-heavy community. The Cambridge Student Ward, which is right across the river, is HUGE, and boasts a tremendous amount of diversity. With Institute classes, active LDS student organizations at all the major universities in the area (BU and Harvard are both next door, and Wellesley is down the road), it's a really welcoming place to active LDS students.

Moreover, SULS itself, with its strong emphasis on moral action and personal righteousness, is, while not LDS, certainly LDS friendly. It's a community even the most enthusiastically personally conservative student can feel at home (trust me, I know).

The Boston, MA Temple (which is actually in Belmont) is right up the road, is popular with the student population. I personally know many, MANY people under 30 (and many under 25) who attend the Temple regularly.

A lot of places are good to be LDS, and an LDS family can thrive pretty much anywhere, but not that many places are good to be young and LDS, or, indeed, young and single and LDS. Although it might seem strange, Boston is right up there next to Happy Valley as a really cheerful, sustaining place to be.

I've known people who went to both Michigan an...

2009-09-23T18:38:10.606-07:00

I've known people who went to both Michigan and Tech and both had good experiences.

I'm assuming that this list is for information, all other things being equal, so that the "best for LDS" is merely a tie breaker input, and a useful one.

Here's the simple truth from a graduate of a t...

2009-08-12T12:18:40.373-07:00

Here's the simple truth from a graduate of a top 5 law school who has practiced law for many years -- and happens to be LDS:

Forget the Mormon friendly nonsense and go to the absolute best law school you can get into (no matter the cost), work your tush off to get the best legal education you can get, try for the best job you can get out of law school, do a great job for your employer and live happily ever after.

Of course, in doing all of that, make sure you retain your values and testimony. You might even make some non-member friends (shocking concept) if you attend a so-called non-"Mormon Friendly" school. Why do you think you need to be surrounded by members to be happy?

Folks, there is no free lunch here, and all of you should know that. Don't look for the easy way out. As the saying goes, the practice of law is a stern mistress, but it is rewarding. Make the sacrifice and reap the reward. Good luck and work hard.

NYU anonymous, don't forget the 8.14% New York Sta...

2009-05-21T16:53:47.897-07:00

NYU anonymous, don't forget the 8.14% New York State income tax and 4% New York City income tax! And Nevada doesn't have either a state income tax or any city income taxes. Plus, for $2,500 a month you can have a really nice house with a short commute or you can a 90 minute commute (each way) to pay $2,500 for a crappy townhouse in New Jersey.

I am LDS and will be attending NYU Law in Fall of ...

2009-05-20T15:34:05.403-07:00

I am LDS and will be attending NYU Law in Fall of 2009. I don't mean to be a snob, but I feel like many LDS people shoot themselves in the foot by attending lower-ranked schools than their scores/experiences merit, simply because there is an LDS "presence" there or someone has led them to believe that the school is "LDS-friendly". The median first-year base salary for an NYU Law grad in the private sector is 160k, with the 25th and 75th percentile all being the same: the BigLaw golden 160k. That is higher than every school on your top-10 list, including Harvard (in some cases, such as UNLV, it is more than double). I agree that salary and employment statistics should be included in any future analysis, especially for those of us who wish to raise a decent-sized family in a semi-nice area.

I am LDS and attend the Hamline University School ...

2009-05-02T13:19:00.000-07:00

I am LDS and attend the Hamline University School of Law in Saint Paul, Minnesota. There are actually three Mormon students in my class, very surprising. The student life here is not very Mormon friendly, but the challenges I face here everday make me a stronger person.

As regards George Mason, I think you may have calc...

2009-04-16T14:38:00.000-07:00

As regards George Mason, I think you may have calculated the distance from the temple from the main campus instead of the law school campus, which is in Arlington. The change would increase George Mason's score to 263, not enough for top 10, but we're working on it :)

Just wanted to add a point for when you do this ag...

2009-04-16T14:29:00.000-07:00

Just wanted to add a point for when you do this again next year: George Mason is 12 miles from the nearest temple. I think that it got flipped on your data.

NEBRASKA all the way!! It really should be higher ...

2009-04-13T07:22:00.000-07:00

NEBRASKA all the way!! It really should be higher on the list. You can get in state tuition, without living there before. I moved here in August and had in state tuition the same month. Best value ever!

Willamette Grad:

I'm definitely impressed t...

2009-04-11T19:30:00.000-07:00

Willamette Grad:

I'm definitely impressed then. Kudos to you.

Yeah for Nebraska!

Go! Big! Red!

I a...

2009-04-10T17:55:00.000-07:00

Yeah for Nebraska!

Go! Big! Red!

I am at Nebraska Law. I couldn't have picked a better situation. We have the best collection of outlines at the school, we all get along and the Lincoln wards are amazing.

Plus... being able to attend football games with the 86,000 Greatest Fans in College Football?

PRICELESS!

Re: "The post by the Willamette student is a litt...

2009-04-09T16:58:00.000-07:00

Re: "The post by the Willamette student is a little deceiving."

I don't practice law in the Pacific Northwest. It would have been easier for me to practice if I had stayed in the area, instead of trying to break into a market where interviewing firms didn't even know how to pronounce "Willamette". The key is the interview. A name-brand degree does tend to get a resume through a screening process a little easier, but a name-brand degree does not guarantee the quality of the education nor the quality of the individual.

Why wasn't the University of Texas considered when...

2009-04-08T13:20:00.000-07:00

Why wasn't the University of Texas considered when Texas Tech was? I'm a 3L at Texas (who really wishes that Texas paid tuition for students with kids like Harvard does), and there are several LDS students here. The only reason that I can think of considering Texas Tech for the list is that Lubbock has a temple. However, San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas all have temples, and they're not that far away from Austin (by Texas standards).

Why is UVA not even on the list of schools that wa...

2009-04-08T10:01:00.000-07:00

Why is UVA not even on the list of schools that was considered?

Is the question "what school is the most Mormon fr...

2009-04-07T14:55:00.000-07:00

Is the question "what school is the most Mormon friendly" or rather "which school has the most friendly Mormons?"

George Mason should have been on the list. More t...

2009-04-07T11:32:00.000-07:00

George Mason should have been on the list. More than 10% of my class is LDS; it is a top-tier law school and rising in the ranks; it is relatively inexpensive for in-state students, which, granted, is difficult to attain; there is a sizable LDS population; the temple is not too far away; jobs are plentiful; you don't have to travel in the summer for internships. The negatives are that housing costs are fairly high; as an up-and-coming school, it is less well known outside the Washington, DC metro area. Mason is still a good school, deserving of its place in the top tier, and has become a bastion for classical liberal jurists.

Harvard is the Most Mormon Friendly law school in ...

2009-04-07T10:31:00.000-07:00

Harvard is the Most Mormon Friendly law school in the country--end of story! I'm headed to Harvard next year, and I'm already drinking the koolaid. Harvard has the best financial aid out of any law school. Most of the 40 LDS Harvard Law Students don't pay tuition, and Harvard has the best debt forgiveness program (LIPP) out of any law school. If you have at least 1 kid, you won't pay any tuition at Harvard, and if you take a government job after graduation, Harvard will make your student loan payment for up to ten years. Actually, LIPP is available to all Harvard grads for up to ten years after graduation, so if an HLS grad leaves BigLaw after a few years and heads over to public interest, HLS will pay his or her student loans. And don't forget that HLS students don't have to kill themselves while in school to get a great job, leaving more time for family and church callings while in law school. Remember that Harvard doesn't even have grades anymore!!! So basically, LDS students with families can go to school for free and have time to spend with their families while in law school. I just got into Harvard, and there is no question where I'll be headed next year: THE MOST MORMON FRIENDLY LAW SCHOOL--HARVARD!

The post by the Willamette student is a little dec...

2009-04-07T08:17:00.000-07:00

The post by the Willamette student is a little deceiving. I have no doubt that he works alongside lawyers from top schools. I'd be willing to bet that you're in Portland, correct? Portland is a very loyal market to Oregon, Willamette, and L&C. I'm at a T25 school and I didn't get a single callback, even though I'm on law review and am in the top 20% of my class. The reason? The firms told me that they interview with the Oregon schools first, then cherry pick kids from the rest. Therefore, the way that Portland firms recruit lends itself to placing Willamette grads next to lawyers from T15 schools.

Although it is normal to want to be in a community...

2009-04-07T05:56:00.000-07:00

Although it is normal to want to be in a community with some other LDS students, especially for those who desire a support system for their wives, the emphasis on number of LDS students is misleading in that it supposes that the higher the number of LDS the better -- we should never be clannish among ourselves and law school is an especially important time to branch out.

I appreciate this list of objectively selected "Mo...

2009-04-06T20:02:00.000-07:00

I appreciate this list of objectively selected "Mormon-friendly" law schools. If you are considering a school or group of schools, however, I would highly recommend that your search extend beyond a top 10 list of "Mormon-friendly" law schools. I think the truth of the matter is that several law schools are "Mormon-friendly" because LDS students tend to be very well respected by faculty, staff, and peers.

With that said, there are several factors that you should consider in your decision, and the factors are likely different for each individual. I would highly recommend speaking to the career services at any school you plan to attend to learn about where most students secure employment, what percentage of students secure employment before graduating, and how much the average student earns after graduation. These questions are significant because, take for example, the locations of where students secure employment. If you attend a school that places the majority of students only in the state where the school is located, and you have no desire to practice law in that state post-graduation, that school is of little value to you. Also a school may appear a good value because you graduate with only $50,000 debt, but the average student earns only $60,000. Whereas you could attend a school where you would incur $100,000 debt but be able to earn $160,000 upon graduation.

Another factor that I believe is significant is the number of LDS students at a school. A school having 60+ LDS students may appear very "Mormon-friendly," but a school having only 20 LDS students may give you several opportunities to be "Mormon-friendly." I attend a school with under 20 students, and I have had 2 experiences in particular that I do not think I would have had at a school having 60+ LDS students: (1) because of the smaller group of LDS students, we have a very strong bond and friendship, which has allowed us to help each other in our law school experience; and (2) our group is small enough that we are not surrounded by LDS students all of the time, which gives us opportunities to establish friendships with several non-LDS students and have a positive influence on them.

Wouldn't trade anything for my experience at a sch...

2009-04-06T19:44:00.000-07:00

Wouldn't trade anything for my experience at a school that would never make the list... but made me a stronger person and pretty darned good lawyer.

IGNORE this stuff. This is baloney. Instead, why not go where the Spirit tells you to go.

Liz Osborn
University of Colorado Law School
Class of 2008

Hey Clint,
This is a really great top ten list,...

2009-04-06T18:01:00.000-07:00

Hey Clint,
This is a really great top ten list, but I am extremely surprised that there are so many Law Schools that have such a high proportion of Mormon students. Although you did not consider the schools in Utah, I wonder what percentage of enrollments at those schools are Mormon. You can post this to our site http://www.toptentopten.com/ and then link back to your site. We are looking for top ten lists and our users can track back to your site. The coolest feature is you can let other people vote on the rankings of your list.

Should have covered William & Mary in this lis...

2009-04-06T17:09:00.000-07:00

Should have covered William & Mary in this list. It's a major Mormon enclave.

From the Above the Law thread:

"Here&#...

2009-04-06T15:54:00.000-07:00

From the Above the Law thread:

"Here's the truth. The top 14 law schools for Mormon students are as follows:

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Columbia
5. NYU
6. Chicago
7. Penn
8. UVa
9. Michigan
10. Berkeley
11. Duke
12. Northwestern
13. Cornell
14. Georgetown.

Sound familiar?"

Obvi.Also:

"Top 20 law schools where BYU undergrads ACTUALLY matriculate:

1. BYU
2. Utah
3. Arizona State
4. George Washington
5. UNLV
6. Georgetown
7. Duke
8. U. Arizona
9. George Mason
10. Michigan
11. Virginia
12. William & Mary
13. Texas
14. Harvard
15. UCLA
16. Columbia
17. Chicago
18. Stanford
19. Berkeley
20. Oregon"

Any Latter-day Saint knows they need to do their best -- go to the best school you can. Go for cheaper tuition only within the same peer group. Just because a temple isn't close and there aren't over 20 LDS students doesn't mean the school isn't "Mormon-friendly." Also, if this list continues to be made, it must include average starting salary -- the cost of tuition means nothing without this context.

I disagree with your ranking because it puts too m...

2009-04-06T15:43:00.000-07:00

I disagree with your ranking because it puts too much weight on the number and percentage of law students. I love the idea of creating a list that ranks schools by looking at the criteria that LDS law students care about, but that requires you to look at all the criteria that LDS law students care about (not just the uniquely "mormon" aspects of a school). I would not find this list to be very helpful if I were deciding were to go to school. I have no problem with any of the criteria you looked at, but you should also look at potential income, job prospects, and other things that all students care about. If the intent is just to have an interesting list for people to look at, then I think this list is OK, but it isn't very helpful.